FMB to play at BOA event in Indianapolis!

1, 2, Ay-Zig, GO!

Postby Drummerfuj » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:14 pm

Rightupinthere wrote:
Drummerfuj wrote: When you have a lazy, "show" band, you're robbing your students of a proper education, and I hope that you see that it's not fair at all to do that to your students.

This is the dumbest statements I've seen on AZZ.com in quite some time. Congratulations, snob-boy.

I hope you realize that you will eventually be railroading your students into a very narrow mind-set......much like the mind-set with which your past/present instructors have plague you.


First off, I have to say, that my instructors did nothing but teach me about music. I came from a show band in high school, never marched DCI, marched two years of WGI, and never did my instructors discuss high school and college band. My opinions come from my EXPERIENCE! Having been on both sides, I see which one is much better in the education process. I have taught show bands and competition style, and I believe, not just think, that the competition style is a better venue for education. So many kids do things at 75 or 80 percent nowadays, and this is a way to teach them to take it to 100. On a personal note, don't insult my instructors.....they have probably forgotten more about music, band, and education than you'll ever hope to know, which is obvious by your constant weak and ridiculous arguments with me. Sorry if I'm being snobby, but man, you're out of your element, so give it up.

Rightupinthere wrote:*edit* I have friends who have these "lazy show bands" and they are also great sit-down bands. See, the band directors believe there is more benefit to their students in sit-down than in marching - that is where they apply their student's energy.


To this I say, why not have both? Uh-oh, I found the obvious flaw with your argument, what now? I eagerly await the clever quips that shall ensue. How about this? You go out and do this stuff. Go teach, and use your methods and have whatever kind of band you want, and at that point, show me how you are able to MAXIMIZE the quality and quantity of your students' education, and I'll back down. I think you must be mistaken, I'm not on here saying these things because I like to argue.....I'm saying them because I believe them, as stated above. So many educators lack the conviction and energy that is required. If a director wants to do a show band, just do it well. Granted, I don't care much for the style, but OSU's band is very good. If the quality of the average show band was anywhere near most competing bands, then I would probably not be on here. This is a forum for FMB members, past and present to share their views and ideas. I believe that if we discuss these issues, we will learn from each other and will push each other to be better educators across the board and then everyone wins, most importantly, the students. I might add, that I stopped by a local band camp this week to see 4 of my students who have graduated teaching a percussion section. They were all doing a phenomenal job at the young age of 18. Obviously, they learned a lot during their time in a program with a competition band, and a competitive indoor drumline.

Rightupinthere wrote:Grip: get one.


Experience, a clue, a valid argument. Get one of each.


As far as this debate about Huto era people, goes, the argument is ridiculous. Just because we disagree with stuff that's going on now, doesn't mean it's because we're from the school of the previous director. Things did get better with Dr. Hayward.......for a little while. It has however, turned into this Nazi-esque state of control that is completely unreasonable. When I heard that they got rid of the running man on game day rehearsal, I knew it was really over. As much as I think it's important to work hard, some fun traditions need to stay. I remember when we had fun at rehearsal, when people looked around and enjoyed their experience of meeting new people and working on a show instead of standing in line to shove their head up the director's rectum.

Niz, if you want to see what I'm talking about in action, get in touch with me. I'll take you with me to some rehearsals of both styles of bands, and will point out all of the aspects that make me believe what I do.

In a perfect world, we'd all agree, but that's not going to happen, so I urge people to find something that they believe in, and stick to it. There's nothing worse than someone who doesn't have any conviction. Just make sure you can back it up with facts, not feelings.

As far as the BOA thing goes. I am certain that it will not go over well for the FMB. if any of you think for one second that you'll get any respect from any of those kids, you're wrong. You're going to follow the number 1 band from prelims. Which means very likely the best band there.................do I have to say more? I'll be there, and only time will tell, but don't get your hopes up. I've talked to several past members of the FMB that did go to BOA in high school, and it's unanimous......it will be a disaster......we'll probably be the group of people sitting down front laughing through the whole thing, so feel free to stop by and say hello.

And oh yeah, I heard about one of the shows for this year, probably the one that will go to BOA. Wait to go Doc, hold on to those glory years, or should I say that glory weekend. Frontiers was already overdone, so just beat that dead horse until there's nothing left. Can't think of a good new idea?......just keep reusing an old one that someone else put together.

November really can't come soon enough.
:D
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Postby Rightupinthere » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:48 pm

Drummerfuj wrote:
Rightupinthere wrote:
Drummerfuj wrote: When you have a lazy, "show" band, you're robbing your students of a proper education, and I hope that you see that it's not fair at all to do that to your students.

This is the dumbest statements I've seen on AZZ.com in quite some time. Congratulations, snob-boy.

I hope you realize that you will eventually be railroading your students into a very narrow mind-set......much like the mind-set with which your past/present instructors have plague you.


First off, I have to say, that my instructors did nothing but teach me about music. I came from a show band in high school, never marched DCI, marched two years of WGI, and never did my instructors discuss high school and college band. My opinions come from my EXPERIENCE! Having been on both sides, I see which one is much better in the education process. I have taught show bands and competition style, and I believe, not just think, that the competition style is a better venue for education. So many kids do things at 75 or 80 percent nowadays, and this is a way to teach them to take it to 100. On a personal note, don't insult my instructors.....they have probably forgotten more about music, band, and education than you'll ever hope to know, which is obvious by your constant weak and ridiculous arguments with me. Sorry if I'm being snobby, but man, you're out of your element, so give it up.

Rightupinthere wrote:*edit* I have friends who have these "lazy show bands" and they are also great sit-down bands. See, the band directors believe there is more benefit to their students in sit-down than in marching - that is where they apply their student's energy.


To this I say, why not have both? Uh-oh, I found the obvious flaw with your argument, what now? I eagerly await the clever quips that shall ensue. How about this? You go out and do this stuff. Go teach, and use your methods and have whatever kind of band you want, and at that point, show me how you are able to MAXIMIZE the quality and quantity of your students' education, and I'll back down. I think you must be mistaken, I'm not on here saying these things because I like to argue.....I'm saying them because I believe them, as stated above. So many educators lack the conviction and energy that is required. If a director wants to do a show band, just do it well. Granted, I don't care much for the style, but OSU's band is very good. If the quality of the average show band was anywhere near most competing bands, then I would probably not be on here. This is a forum for FMB members, past and present to share their views and ideas. I believe that if we discuss these issues, we will learn from each other and will push each other to be better educators across the board and then everyone wins, most importantly, the students. I might add, that I stopped by a local band camp this week to see 4 of my students who have graduated teaching a percussion section. They were all doing a phenomenal job at the young age of 18. Obviously, they learned a lot during their time in a program with a competition band, and a competitive indoor drumline.

Rightupinthere wrote:Grip: get one.


Experience, a clue, a valid argument. Get one of each.


As far as this debate about Huto era people, goes, the argument is ridiculous. Just because we disagree with stuff that's going on now, doesn't mean it's because we're from the school of the previous director. Things did get better with Dr. Hayward.......for a little while. It has however, turned into this Nazi-esque state of control that is completely unreasonable. When I heard that they got rid of the running man on game day rehearsal, I knew it was really over. As much as I think it's important to work hard, some fun traditions need to stay. I remember when we had fun at rehearsal, when people looked around and enjoyed their experience of meeting new people and working on a show instead of standing in line to shove their head up the director's rectum.

Niz, if you want to see what I'm talking about in action, get in touch with me. I'll take you with me to some rehearsals of both styles of bands, and will point out all of the aspects that make me believe what I do.

In a perfect world, we'd all agree, but that's not going to happen, so I urge people to find something that they believe in, and stick to it. There's nothing worse than someone who doesn't have any conviction. Just make sure you can back it up with facts, not feelings.

As far as the BOA thing goes. I am certain that it will not go over well for the FMB. if any of you think for one second that you'll get any respect from any of those kids, you're wrong. You're going to follow the number 1 band from prelims. Which means very likely the best band there.................do I have to say more? I'll be there, and only time will tell, but don't get your hopes up. I've talked to several past members of the FMB that did go to BOA in high school, and it's unanimous......it will be a disaster......we'll probably be the group of people sitting down front laughing through the whole thing, so feel free to stop by and say hello.

And oh yeah, I heard about one of the shows for this year, probably the one that will go to BOA. Wait to go Doc, hold on to those glory years, or should I say that glory weekend. Frontiers was already overdone, so just beat that dead horse until there's nothing left. Can't think of a good new idea?......just keep reusing an old one that someone else put together.

November really can't come soon enough.
:D

Your long winded response and arguments are fairly well stated, however, you forgot that my response was specific to your premise that "lazy" and "show band" are synonymous. Your counter to me flew in the face of that.

drummerfudge wrote:When you have a lazy, "show" band, you're robbing your students of a proper education, and I hope that you see that it's not fair at all to do that to your students.


You seem to forget that I didn't have a response to anything else in your post. What do you think that means? Think hard, snobby. I don't have a problem for striving for perfection, but don't drag down a marching genre. You must really get your panties in a twist when you think about Texas A&M's marching band, huh?
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Postby Metz » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:55 pm

So how about that BOA thing? Anyone going? This thread is getting redick...haha!

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Postby Rightupinthere » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:06 pm

Metz wrote:So how about that BOA thing? Anyone going? This thread is getting redick...haha!

Haven't you heard? The band forum is the new hockey forum.
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Postby jacojdm » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:01 pm

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Postby jg4242 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:03 am

I suppose we are starting to get a bit hostile in here. I know not everybody agrees with everything I say, and I also know that I may be mistaken about the past attitudes of the band. That's the purpose of this forum, it gives us all a place to connect and share ideas, both good and bad. To Preston, Saxy, Metz, Goofy, Tailfeather, et al.: Thanks. You guys have given me feedback on my ideas about the FMB, and I do appreciate that. I apologize if I put any noses out of joint, as I wasn't trying to. I learned a lot from this conversation, and I am glad for it. With that said:

Drummerfuj wrote:It has however, turned into this Nazi-esque state of control that is completely unreasonable. When I heard that they got rid of the running man on game day rehearsal, I knew it was really over.


Ummm.... except that they didn't get rid of that.... Before you start comparing band directors to fascists, it's a good idea to get your facts straight. We're not lining up to shove anything anywhere, we're just saying that it's time to get over perceived injustices and get on with working our asses off to make the FMB better. Oh, and having some fun while we're at it.

There's nothing worse than someone who doesn't have any conviction. Just make sure you can back it up with facts, not feelings.


Take your own advice, man. And chill out.
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Postby Metz » Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:26 am

Rightupinthere wrote:Haven't you heard? The band forum is the new hockey forum.


I just love how a thread in the band forum can go on for pages and change subject like 6 different times and no one cares. We all just keep adding to it!

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Postby bgmaggot00 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:28 pm

Is this thread STILL going? For real. I think Fuj is also "OhioBobcat" and "tekeniki." Maybe even "Macman...." Just stop responding.
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Postby h2oville rocket » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:18 am

bgmaggot00 wrote:Is this thread STILL going? For real. I think Fuj is also "OhioBobcat" and "tekeniki." Maybe even "Macman...." Just stop responding.


Not sure how I even got here, but this thread is more gay than the new Falcon logo. Although I do love me some good band smack! ;-)
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Postby tiznow » Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:20 am

[quote="Metz"]So how about that BOA thing? Anyone going? This thread is getting redick...haha![/quote

I apologize for my ignorance, I am not sure what BOA is, but
I saw this thread mentioned an event in Indianapolis, if anyone is going and wants any suggestions of places to go, just let me know.
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Postby bgmaggot00 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:45 pm

tiznow wrote:
Metz wrote:So how about that BOA thing? Anyone going? This thread is getting redick...haha![/quote

I apologize for my ignorance, I am not sure what BOA is, but
I saw this thread mentioned an event in Indianapolis, if anyone is going and wants any suggestions of places to go, just let me know.


BOA = Bands of America. Check out http://www.bands.org/
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Postby BGDM06 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:42 pm

I think that this trip is a great oppportunity to have the fmb step it up a notch.....we may not be THE BEST marching band in the country....but every band has room to improve...I don't think we will be an embarrassment at BOA. I think we should look at it as more of a challenge than anything. As far as how we marched at the high school after the OSU game...being there and marching myself I will tell you part of the reason it was not our top performance was how muddy the field was and the fact that the band was so INCREDIBLY TIRED!!!! We had a long day and the band was ready for some rest. Every band one of "those" performances. The FMB is still a great band and I am proud of it :-)
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Postby Rabbit » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:09 pm

Wow, after reading this and Justin's comments about 'lazy show bands' makes me glad he isn't still working for me at my band camps teaching my percussion. What a crappy attitude, I am really surprised, and very disappointed, Justin, because I really liked and respected you.

I am one that is firmly NOT a believer i competition bands. Having taught in two different venues, one being all competition and one being more of a show-type, I can tell you that without a doubt the students in my 'show' band (though I hesitate using that term) who learn 15+ songs and drills each season learn far more than the competition bands I have worked with that cranked on the same thing for 6 months out of the year. Everyone, I am sure, has an opinion one way or another on that topic, but in reality no one is right or wrong. If the students are learning music and learning to truely enjoy performing, then THAT is what really matters, right?

Justin, I'd like to hear your thoughs about this if you ever have your own entire band program that you teach on your own...it's a much different view when you are 'alone at the top' so to speak and running a program from the ground up. The good educators are the ones who are really focused on educating the students, not just after that competition win they can hang on their wall.

As for the FMB, I know nothing about the Huto years since I graduated 17 years ago. I haven't seen the FMB in a long number of years so cannot even comment about the quality or lack thereof. But I would assume that just as in my era of marching, the vast majorty of members have a lot of pride and dedication and are working hard. It's really easy to stand on the sidelines, point fingers, and criticize.
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Postby Drummerfuj » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:27 am

Jan,

You certainly would NOT be one of those lazy band directors that I'm talking about, just so you know. You work EXTREMELY hard to provide the best education possible to your students, and that's what it's really all about, and I really don't think that I've said anything other than that. I am bummed that you would ever think that I don't think highly of band directors like yourself. Having talked to you, I know that you are quite aware of how to best educate your students within a given program, and I am certain that if put in the position to have to compete, that you would make sure the job got done right. My beef is really with the kids that are out there talking about how to do this, but haven't taught a day in their life. My other problem is that these kids are satisfied with the quality of the band at BGSU. You know that it was better in your days than it is now, and it has been good since then and it is on a steady decline. Regardless of whether or not your kids would win at BOA or anything of the nature, they are consistently one of the most motivated groups of kids I have ever seen. I do feel that the competitive venue does more easily lend to a better overall education if done properly, but a properly run show band can do the same, I just don't see too many of those around and I do think that many band directors take that route as an excuse to slack off for 10 weeks during marching band season. Again, I do not believe you to be one of those and I apologize for any offense taken to you or any band directors that work as hard as you do. You are willing to hire extra instructors to come in and make sure that the kids are the best that they can be, and that they have a good educational experience. I have a great deal of respect for what you do at DSJ and hope that you continue to do so. The band there got better year after year and it was all at a reasonable pace which the students can handle. Your kids love having you as their leader and I think that is really what it's all about, because you inspire them to love music. You also strive for the best of what you do, and I can't stress enough that I believe that to be the key to being a good educator. I do feel however, that more often than not, the best programs seem to be the ones that compete as the competition style teaches kids to take things to the next level. As with any situation, there are exceptions and your program is one of them. Year after year, a bunch of people that believe in the competition style band really want to come teach at your program because they know that it's a proper music education for the kids. So all being said and done, my apologies again for offending you specifically, and I hope that you understand a bit more clearly what my point is. As far as the time when I am at the top, maybe I'll succeed, maybe I'll fail, only time will tell, and I wish you and the DSJ band the best of luck in the future!
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